This interview has been published by Anshi Mudgal and The SuperLawyer Team
How did you prepare yourselves to get into NLU Bhopal and what was your motivation to pursue a career in law?
I’d like to say that when it comes to choosing law as a profession, it came to me naturally by virtue of wanting to be someone who wanted to solve a problem and be someone of value. I was very fond of reading about providing proper solutions to people. I grew up in a family with a very strong academic background. And they always encouraged me to think about a solution-oriented approach to complex problems. So that’s how eventually I zeroed down to law because I did not want to be an investment banker. I was not great with math. So, that’s the core of my practice when I started the profession. And that’s the core of my practice even today. Solving problems through value addition is really what I wanted to do.
After completing your career as a law graduate, you started with a tier 2 law firm and then moved your way to a tier 1 law firm like Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas & Co. What was your experience relating to the cultural shift in both the establishments and what were the adjustments you made while making this particular transition?
Yes, this is a personal background story that not many people know of. When I graduated from NLIU, I did not get into the Tier 1 law firms although I had a fantastic base, it is just that my interviews did not go as well as was planned because I was anxious, nervous and attached and it was a very human thing. Therefore, I started off with a Tier 2 law firm, but I think everything does happen for a reason.
I’m very thankful for my journey. The entire journey of going to a tier 2 law firm and then moving to a tier 1 law firms through my work, honing client handling skills and learning to deliver value has been a wholesome journey that happened for a reason and therefore now that I look back at it, it all just adds up, beautifully.
If you were to ask me today, there’s nothing about my journey I’d like to change. When I was in a tier 2 law firm, I experienced a lot of personal training. I experienced people paying attention to my work. Seniors were a little more approachable and relaxed and that is also when I started my preparation for the tier 1 law firms. I joined a lot of courses in LawSikho and gradually the preparation led to Tier 1 which was a different experience on its own and boom I had a couple of offers, I could choose from after my experience.
In Tier 1, there was a lot of exposure relating to international clients and a varied work culture while working with a Tier-1 Law firm.
So, both Tier 2 and Tier 1 firms have taught me a lot. The experiences and the values have been different in terms of what I have taken away from both of them. But, like I said, the journey was the journey for a reason.
Moving on from there, would you be interested in sharing any case, which was very interesting for you while you were working in these top tier law firms, especially in the sector of corporate governance?
I think I’ve been very fortunate to be in a lot of very good deals where I’ve had a lot to learn.
But if you were to talk about my work experience in terms of what I learned, I think I learned the most in SAMVĀD Partners in the sense that the training was very in-depth and they taught you how to think. That skill is irreplaceable. I remember a particular bunch of cases that we did for a couple of venture capital investors, where they were investing in different sectors in India. Preparing the diligence reports required a lot more thought than what people generally think it is, it’s not black and white. There were different types of transaction documents and different natures of transactions which I was exposed to.
I think it’s difficult to pick one case. But let me just say it was so perfect and so beautiful. I learned at every step of the journey. Actually, if you’re in a fast-paced law firm, you learn so much on a regular basis because you work with a different team.
There’s so much to take from there. You work with a senior, learn tricks like how to handle a document better, there’s something to take from everyone. So, everything combined goes a long way.
After working with high-profile law firms, when did you decide to switch to freelancing? What key learnings do you continue to uphold while working with these international clients from over 50 countries?
This is interesting, when COVID hit and the markets were down, at least for me in a tier 2 at that time, I felt the wrath of it because there were salary cuts. There was so much happening. That’s when I explored Fiverr, so this was way back in and at that time I remember I did not have the money in my bank account to have an Upwork profile and buy connects, and I still give Upwork the feedback that, they are expensive for somebody who’s trying to begin their journey because on Upwork one keeps applying initially and it takes time to really crack the market. I remember at that time it was so hard, I couldn’t justify buying so many connects. So, I was only on Fiverr for about 2 months and each month I made a decent amount of money at that time, I mean thank God I had food on the table during COVID. So, for me, I did well on Fiverr and I was happy but the scalability was still missing.
Then I thought, okay, let me explore and go to a law firm. So, I happened to get on the law firm track and then life just took a full circle with Upwork, when I finally reached out to Abhyuday, while I was in a tier 1 law firm and talked to him about how I feel like giving Upwork a real shot.
There was something in me at that time that told me I was prepared for Upwork. From January to August, 2023, I was just recouping and was just all over the place, nothing productive but in August, 2023, I told myself, I need to get my life together and my life unveiled to me the most beautiful journey there could have been as that is when I started Upwork. One more noteworthy factor is that I was never attached to the idea of making USD 100,000 in 14 months or 12 months. I was out there genuinely enjoying what I was doing and that is why I was doing what I was doing without any breaks or without any need for a break.
I really liked it and the profile kept growing. I told Abhyuday somewhere around September/ October, 2023 that this is what I was supposed to do all this while. This is my life journey and I attracted my mentors who helped me through it all – Jean-Luc, Abhyuday, Ramanuj, Priyanka. In my family, my parents, specifically my mom, mama and chacha were always there for me and so was my friend Kartika, she has helped me manage my not-so-good days.
Upwork has taught me a lot even in terms of soft skills. It has taught me first that every project is not going to be perfect, maybe one project in a 100 will not go as planned but we should still do the best we can. You learn through your mistakes, say that it’s fine and that everyone has bad days. And the second thing is that if you put out value, people will value you. Like I said, I don’t undersell myself too much on Upwork. It’s not like I’m the cheapest freelancer there and neither am I the most expensive, but I charge my worth and put out real value to the best of my abilities.
So don’t do something that doesn’t make you feel good in the long run. Charge your worth and be reasonable.
Maintaining a constant workflow of projects and dealing with various clients all over the globe must be very tedious to you. How do you actually manage the same while balancing your personal life?
Okay, Number one, the trick to this when I was discussing this with Ramanuj also, is that you save time if you have a repeat client. So, if you have a repeat client, imagine you don’t have to pitch, you don’t have to go out to someone and convince them of your abilities again, the same client hires you again and again.
Establishing a repeat customer rate makes life easier and saves you time. And therefore, you can take out some time for your personal life.
I have 3 pets at home, actually. I have 1 dog and I have 2 rabbits and I’m in the process of, hopefully if everyone in the house agrees, then also have fish in the house. I take care of my pets also. So, there is a personal life and it’s how you save time by virtue of establishing a clientele, which will help you go a long way.
There must be various statutes and laws that you must research before providing the advice to the clients as they are from different jurisdictions. How do you actually prepare for such opportunities? And what kind of strategies have you developed over the years to keep up with the new emerging trends?
So firstly, there are certain jurisdictions where my clients are concentrated. I have a lot of clients in the US, UK and Australia. So those are 3 jurisdictions, which I know I need to focus on. And secondly, there is a certain joy that I find in reading about a more evolved law in certain aspects. Now when I read different laws, I see that there is a certain level of evolution in specific legislative areas.
So, I find a lot of joy in that process, which is the joy of discovering something new. And it comes with practice but it’s about studying, reading and working on something new every day. It compounds and accumulates over time and you don’t have to overwhelm yourself; in one month saying, I’m going to become an expert. There is no expert – we are all works in progress, working on ourselves, striving for excellence.
What would be the advice given to your younger self, going back a couple of years or the younger generation, which is entering the field of law, on how to make this vertical of freelancing a success for them?
I think to my younger self, I would definitely say, please chill, relax a little bit, life’s not going to end and there’s no one victory or one defeat, which will define your career that doesn’t happen. Take care of your mental health, your needs and be kind to yourself first. Then find a bigger purpose. My bigger purpose is to care for animals and maybe create an animal shelter one day, invest in mental health, financially help especially abled people – that gives me more joy than anything else.
I would also tell myself that it is every day work that defines who you are. And there is no such thing as big or small. I remember when I had started working on Upwork, there were a lot of people who felt it’s just not glamorous enough or not “big enough” for them. So, I would say that, there’s nothing that’s too small. If you think there’s a client you want to work with on Upwork or on Fiverr, whatever your place of interest is, if you like and enjoy it, you should do it. There’s nothing like small – you define your small, you define your big.
And second is don’t undersell yourself because of a client. That’s just something I’ve realized because what I feel is that I have only 24 hours in a day. It makes sense for me to define what I want to do in those 24 hours and who it is that I want to be associated with in those 24 hours.
I therefore like to have my own boundaries in terms of what are the prices I charge or what is it that I put forward in terms of value. So, you should define what keeps you in the journey for the long run and work as per those principles and put out values that match those principles and I think that’s just the way of it.
It’s the interweaving of your values, what you put out and what you really think you deserve. Also, it’s just everything put together, which culminates into a beautiful journey.
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