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Navigating Dual Legal Systems: From Civil Litigation in India to Criminal Defense Law in Canada, A Journey of Transitioning Between Legal Cultures and Building a Successful Practice – Jasminder Singh, Barrister & Solicitor at Jaslegals Professional Corporation.

This interview has been published by Anshi Mudgal and The SuperLawyer Team

You are an accomplished lawyer and you are practicing in both of the countries. How did you build this particular process for yourself, that you studied in India and then moved to Ontario, Canada and built a law practice over there?

I studied law from Panjab University, the five-year law department UILS, and once I finished, I moved to Delhi to study for competitive exams for some time. I stayed there in Delhi then after that I started practicing in Patiala district court in Punjab. I practiced there for more than a year and my parents live in Chandigarh. I am from Chandigarh, but I used to work in Patiala because I got an opportunity to work under a very good, very senior lawyer there. And I used to do civil litigation there in Patiala because my inclination was towards civil litigation.

Then one of my friends told me that there’s this program, you can go to Canada, you can become a permanent resident directly based on points, so I calculated my points. I was eligible and I applied for the permanent residency and I became a PR. I moved to Canada in 2019.  And, after a few months, I was lucky enough to get a job in a criminal law firm in Canada. I started working there as a legal assistant and then slowly and steadily I cleared my NCA exam. For any person who wants to become a lawyer in Canada and who has not done law from Canada, the first step is to do the NCA exams. There are five, six exams. Basically, those are equivalency exams. Once you clear them and then you enroll yourself in the lawyer licensing process.

In the lawyer licensing process, you have to do three things. You have to clear the barrister exam, the solicitor exam, because in Canada, lawyers are called barristers and solicitors.  We can practice as both barristers and solicitors the way we like and also complete a 10-month internship period with a lawyer, which is called an articling. So, I did all of that. Once I cleared my bar exams, I started working in the same firm as an articling student. And once I completed my articling, I was called to the bar in Ontario in February, 2022. the day I got called to the bar, the next day I opened my own practice, I started practicing on my own.

And I think I got called to the bar on February 26th, and I registered my firm on February 27th.  And I used to do immigration law and criminal defense law in the beginning. I did immigration for a couple of months, but my focus, my interest, my inclination was towards criminal defense law, because I was lucky enough to get a mentor here in Canada as well. He’s a very senior criminal lawyer practicing for more than 40 years in Canada, only criminal law, and I got to learn the ropes of criminal law from him. My inclination was to practice criminal law in Canada. I stopped taking immigration files after a couple of months. After that, I’ve solely focused my practice on criminal defense law. And primarily I’m based in the GTA, which is the greater Toronto area, but I practice all over Ontario. I appear in all courts in Ontario and I deal with every kind of criminal case that exists in Canada.

How has your career in law or rather your decision to do law been instrumental in giving you this much confidence? You of course do a law degree to practice, but still confidence comes from many other sources as well. How have you done that for yourself?

 I think mainly, especially in the legal field, your first mentor matters a lot. If you get a good mentor in the beginning, because invariably you become like them.  When you start practicing, you pick up the traits of your first mentor you have. Your temperament becomes like them, you, your ethics, everything you copy from them, basically.

Because that’s your starting point. Unless your father is a lawyer, you have a family of lawyers, then that’s different. But if you’re a first-generation lawyer, your mentor is everything for you, in the beginning. I was lucky enough to get a very good mentor in India as well, in Patiala. And then I was very lucky to have a mentor here in Canada.

Who treated me like his son.  He was the managing partner of the firm. They have 12 offices in Ontario. It’s a very big criminal law firm. I used to be with him all the time. Before COVID, we used to go to all courts in Ontario in person, every day. We used to devise a route in such a way, if I give you an example, an Indian example, you’re practicing in Patiala and you have a few court appearances on Monday, then we will devise a route in such a way that we will do Patiala, we will do Ropar, we will do Ludhiana and we can go to Hisharpur next. So, in that way. One day we are going in the other direction towards Delhi, one day we are going in the other direction. So, we used to cover all of Ontario in one week before COVID. But after COVID, everything started happening virtually. Now we do court appearances virtually. We’re doing this interview virtually.

Everything is virtual now and which is convenient for us as well because today also, I have a court date in Brampton, and I have a court date in a city which is 100 kilometers away, I have a court date in a city which is 200 kilometers away in the other direction. So, just because of these virtual appearances and zoom and everything, I would say it’s better for the justice system because we’re able to defend clients, access to justice is readily available now. And it is less expensive for clients as well because traveling costs and everything used to add up. So, I would say, getting a good mentor is crucial. I think he trained me in a way that after about two years of working with him, I was confident enough that I can start my own practice and I can do criminal law.

As you were discussing how you transitioned from India to Canada, is there any checklist that you could share with us and our learners? How did you do it in a stepwise manner? If that’s possible.

 I would say there is only one way and it is not easy. I mean, the legal field is already competitive. Whether it’s India, Canada, US or England, wherever, the legal field is a competitive field. And if you’re changing countries, you’ve done law from another country, and you’re going to practice in another country, you have to learn their system, learn law, learn the procedure, learn everything that is there to learn.

And people are new, they won’t give you a chance very easily because you’re not a lawyer who’s done law from their country, you’re a foreign trained lawyer. Initially it is not easy. You have to be mentally tough; I would say it was easier because of the support of my parents. I moved to Canada.

I’m the only son and they were very supportive of my move to Canada. And initially, I would just say, anybody who comes to Canada. I would like to talk about Canada because I’m here. I can’t say about other countries. Don’t go astray. Don’t go into other areas. Stick to the legal field. People start driving, for example, trucks, taxis, and work in restaurants. Anybody who is not able to make ends meet, that’s a different scenario for them. But if you can afford, stick to the legal field, clear your exams as soon as possible, and then try to find a good mentor and find a good job.  Getting the first job in the legal area, in the legal field is, I would say, one of the toughest things.

Once you get your first job in Canada, then you start building experience, you start learning things, you get the required skills that you need for your second job or to further your career in law. I would say getting the first job is crucial, and getting it as soon as possible is even more crucial because if you don’t get the first job in time, a few months pass. It is very difficult to survive in Canada without a job or without a proper job. That is why people tend to go to other areas to just survive which is okay given everybody’s circumstances, but if you can stick to the legal field, clear your exams, get your first job and it is also important to get a job where the mentor is good. Because the first job is not about money, it is all about learning. So, if you can get a job, get in that door, work for six months, learn something out of it, then getting a second job would be very easy for you.  People start expecting money in the beginning. If the minimum wage is this, I should be getting this but that’s, I would say, especially in the legal field That’s not how it works.

Not everybody wants to pay. Not everybody wants to pay you well. So, if you are very lucky if you find an employer who’s paying you well or who’s treating you well, to get a first job, doing volunteer work is the best way and quickest way to get your job. Don’t worry about money if you work for them for one or two months. They like you; they like your skills, they like the hard work you put in and your mentor is good. They will definitely start paying you. Nobody wants to have a person who’s a hard-working person and nobody wants to have them work for free. Once you show them that you were really worth something, money will follow.

As a criminal defense lawyer, what has been one of the most or some of the most challenging cases that you may have handled, if it is possible for you to share any particular case or the outcome of that particular case, which has actually significantly influenced your approach towards criminal law?

 I have handled a variety of cases, but the difficulty I think is in the client. Law is the same. If there is a case which pertains to an area of criminal law, which I’m not very familiar with. I can read up, I have books, there are so many resources, judgments, everything.

You can learn those things. I think it depends on the client. Sometimes clients are difficult. For example, now primarily, most of my clients are immigrants. They come from South Asian backgrounds, Indians, Pakistanis, Afghanis, Iranian, Middle Eastern people, Southwest Asian people, Southeast Asian people, Filipinos, all of those. So mostly immigrants, plus local people. The majority of my practice consists of immigrants. Immigrants come from countries where there is corruption, where you know you can manage things in your own way. They come with this expectation to Canada that if they get charged with a criminal offense. They will hire a lawyer and the lawyer will do some magic and the lawyer can get them out of it. In some cases, it’s possible.

It’s not possible and the main difference between Indian and Canadian legal systems, especially in criminal law is we do plea bargaining a lot. In India there is provision in the CRPC for plea bargaining, but it’s not done very often In Canada, most cases resolve by getting a plea bargain. I would say 20, 25 percent cases go to trial. In Canada, if the evidence is against you, the crown, we call prosecutors crown attorneys here because Canada is a constitutional democracy. So the crown attorneys have enough evidence against you, they think they will be able to prove the case against you, then there is no other way out. You cannot bribe the crown attorney.

You cannot bribe the judge and neither the police. But I think people come with an expectation that our lawyer will manage everything. They will just get us out of everything. Unscratched. So, I think managing people’s expectations is most difficult. Because if you tell your client in the beginning just to get retained that, okay, your case is very easy.

I will do this and this, I will do wonders in your case. Then you’ve created such expectations that once you also know that those are not true because when the case ends, your client is bound to be dissatisfied with you. They are bound to be unhappy with you because you gave them expectations which are not real. So, managing the client’s expectations.  It’s not true for immigrants only. It’s true for everyone, but I’ve seen a tendency of immigrants who think like this.  They’re more in number. I would say that is the most difficult task. If you manage your client’s expectations appropriately, I think there’s nothing to worry about.

And now there comes this issue of credibility as well. As a new lawyer. If I start telling my clients, okay, these are the pros, these are the cons. This can be done. This cannot be done. They will most probably go to another lawyer who gives them better expectations or who promises better things.

In the beginning, it is very difficult to manage expectations and on the same hand get yourself retained. But as you, your practice grows older you get credibility. People start trusting you, they believe what you say and they trust you. Now it is easier for me at this stage. Whatever I tell my clients they trust me, they believe me. But in the beginning, it was very difficult. When you tell clients that this cannot be done, they will go to another person who promises better things. Now you have to promise also and you have to execute your plan and get what you promised.

As you were mentioning during your answer about the difference between the way we practice law in India and the way you practice law in Canada, you are a dual license lawyer, with your experiences in both of the countries. How have you seen the difference between the legal system and the kind of function it has in each country? Is there any particular reason for you to choose especially criminal law practice? And also, what are the particular differences between these two jurisdictions? As you mentioned, Canada is a constitutional law country.

 I think I chose criminal law by chance, because in India I was practicing civil litigation. When I came to Canada, I got my first job in a criminal law firm. I learned criminal law. I got experience. I developed the skillset for a criminal defense lawyer. That is why I got into criminal law. I wouldn’t say it was planned. It was just by chance. But there are differences also in Indian and Canadian legal systems.

There are similarities as well. I would say, in India, we have a very good legal system as in Canada, but I think the difference is in the implementation. Police have all the powers, but police cannot implement their powers, execute their powers. due to various reasons.  Similarly, when the case goes to the court, the prosecutors, judges have lots of powers, but the implementation, especially the delay. Justice delayed is always justice denied.

I would say the main problem in Indian courts is the delay. In Canada, there’s a Supreme Court judgment that you have to finish a criminal case in 18 months. If it’s not finished in 18 months and the delay is unreasonable, the court will withdraw your charges. They will throw the case out of the court and your charges will be stayed or withdrawn. So, this is how serious they are with regards to timelines. A criminal case gets finished in one and a half years to two years. That’s the maximum. On an average, a criminal case gets finished, I would say six, seven months, eight months. When you get justice in time, justice seems to have been done.

But when you don’t get justice for years, even if justice gets done in the end, I don’t think it’s of any use to the person who’s been fighting for justice for so many years.  Second thing is I found a lot of difference in sentencing and how people are sentenced. For example, you are found guilty of any offense or you plead guilty to something and then a sentencing hearing is scheduled.

Before the sentencing hearing, we provide all the information about our client’s background to the judge, including any counseling that they’ve done, any background reference letters, any immigration consequences they may have, a lot of different things depending on the charges and the situation. And when the sentence hearing takes place, the prosecutor, the crown attorney, they tell the judge what sentence they are asking for and the reasons for the sentence. Then it’s our turn, we make our submissions, and when the judge sentences the person, they talk to the person, they tell them that we are imposing this sentence on you.

These were the aggravating factors that I considered. These were the mitigating factors that I considered. And this is the reason that I’m imposing this sentence on you, and this is what you have to do. They take their time, they take half an hour, one hour, two hours, to explain everything to the person so that that person knows why this sentence was imposed on me, what were the things that were against me, what were the things that were in my support. And the result is that the person is usually satisfied with the result, with the sentence and they have faith in the criminal justice system. They don’t think that the sentence is arbitrary or they don’t think that the judge was biased or they just imposed a sentence which was not appropriate in the circumstances. So this process taking time to explain things to the person I think has a great impact on that person and that person usually doesn’t come before the court again. They’re usually done because the main sentencing principle in Canada usually is rehabilitation.

You have to give a sentence in a way so that the sentence should not be too harsh, that the person goes to jail and becomes a criminal in jail. Otherwise, he’s not a criminal. And the sentence should not be too lenient so that the person thinks, okay, I can get away with everything. The sentence should be balanced enough to take care of all the sentencing principles. I would say sentencing in Canada is very thorough and is very important and everybody gives it importance.

You have also mentioned about your passion of spreading awareness related to law, especially not only criminal law, but obviously about these kinds of differences as well. What kind of advice would you like to give to the young and aspiring lawyers who are actually dreaming to become international practitioners like you?

I think the way to success in the legal profession is the same in every country. It doesn’t matter if you’re in Canada, India, US, wherever. Initially, you have to focus on learning. Don’t focus on money. Focus on developing your skill set for the initial four or five years or less or more depending on your circumstances.

Money will follow after that. If you start focusing on money, focusing on glamour, focusing on other things in the beginning, your practice may not go in the direction that you want it to go to.  But if you focus on learning, getting a good mentor, I think nothing beats it. Nothing beats hard work. There is no shortcut to anything.

You have to be uncomfortable; you have to go out of your comfort zone. If you don’t become uncomfortable, if you don’t take risks, smaller risk or big, you don’t have to take a very big risk initially, it’s all about smaller risks that you take on a daily basis. Taking up a case, which you don’t know much about, then researching and finding out everything about it and going to court, speaking in a court which is packed with lawyers, people on Zoom, judges listening to you, your client is listening to you. The other party is listening to you. Sometimes you become weak in your legs, sometimes you start shaking, you are very nervous, but you cannot show that to the judge. You cannot show that to the crown.

You cannot show that to other lawyers, your client, anybody else. I think hard work, research, and preparation is the only, only, and only way to get success in the legal profession. Without preparation or hard work, if you don’t know your file, you’ll make a laughing stock of yourself in court. I would just say that.

When you started Jaslegals, which now operates across five office locations in the Greater Toronto area itself, can you tell us more about your vision for the firm and how you effectively manage the operations and maintain a consistent workflow across these multiple locations?

 First of all, most things happen virtually. That helps. Because we’re able to do everything virtually sitting in one place because Ontario, I think it’s larger than Punjab, Haryana and Rajasthan combined or even larger. It is impossible to go everywhere physically.

I have five different offices in different locations in the greater Toronto area. My main office is in Mississauga. I am based in Mississauga, but I go to my other offices by appointment. If somebody wants to meet me in Waterloo, Toronto, Scarborough, Hamilton, I go there by appointment. Now, I have a team working for me.

I have my office managers, legal assistants working for me. My wife is a big support. She’s been working with me since day one. She handles the firm’s marketing and social media aspect of the firm and every kind of marketing. She does everything. She’s made the logo. She’s made the website She’s made our flyers everything that she does.

I don’t know anything about those things so without her that site wouldn’t have been possible and yes, we have five locations and usually we do things virtually, but if somebody, if the client insists that I meet them in person in a different city, then I go wherever they need me to come.

But yes, we have a system. We have employees working for us. We have streamlined everything. And recently, I posted an ad for a lawyer. I wanted to hire a lawyer. I finalized somebody, our team is growing. And my vision is for the firm to practice criminal law across Canada, to open up offices in different provinces of Canada and just focus on criminal law and just focus on imparting knowledge about criminal law because like I told you mostly my clients are immigrants and immigrants do not know about criminal law. Everybody in Canada knows about real estate law or immigration law because they’ve been through that process. But criminal law impacts them on a daily basis and the consequences of getting into trouble with criminal law are deputation, jail term, getting a criminal record, which are very serious.

You lose your job, lose your family, lose the country. I thought when I started that it’s very important for people to know about criminal law so that they don’t get into trouble with criminal law unintentionally. So that is my goal and I’m very active on social media. I make videos in English and Punjabi, which is my mother tongue, so that people understand what criminal law is and how to stay out of trouble with criminal law.

We would love to understand how you balance between your personal and professional commitments as both of you are working professionals and also the kind of professional demands that you have because of the five locations. How soon do you see yourself being spread all over Canada?

 I would say, first of all, I try to balance my personal and professional life. Spending time with my family is very important to me. We have a dog as well. We don’t have a child, but we have a dog which is like our child.

I make sure that I’m home from the office about four o’clock, which is my dog’s dog park time. He’s waiting for me to take him. Then we spend about two hours together, my wife and our dog, we go on hikes, we go to the dog park. I’m usually not available between four to six. So, my assistants or my associates, they answer my phone calls and everything. Then I resume work. Because I get phone calls a lot. I get phone calls 24×7. People get stuck. People keep getting arrested. People have troubles late at night. I’m always on the phone. I resume my work after that, but I make it a point to come home in time so that we’re able to spend our evenings together.

And my wife and I have no issues spending time together because we are always together. We go to the office together.  We are at home together in the evening also. We try to cook and stay together. We like staying in. We don’t like going out that much because of your dog also. And because it’s just what we prefer. I think balancing is no problem.  And I stress on it a lot because my parents, my mother especially used to emphasize the importance of balancing different things in life. She used to say, don’t do anything extreme, balance everything. If you balance everything, that’s better in the long run.

I would like to ask you about the kind of issues that are coming up with not only lawyers, but other professions also related to mental health. What are your views about that as you are so keen on spreading awareness about criminal law in immigrants. So how do you see that one can actually go ahead and try and help these kinds of issues or address these issues at least because these have become very evident right after COVID as well?

 Absolutely, I would say the legal profession is a tough profession and especially criminal law because when a person gets charged with a criminal offense, they come to you with their problem. They are in trouble. They are panicking.  If you are dedicated to your practice. Over time, you start thinking that your client’s problems are your problems.

You treat their problems as your own because they tell you, their problems. They tell you everything about their life. You know, everything about their life, their challenges, if they have any money problems, if they have any family problems, partner problems, anything else. So eventually when people are telling you their problems, 24/7, you start thinking that their problems are your problems and you start taking the stress of their problems. It happened to me as well. I used to get stressed a lot. I used to get anxious sometimes in the mornings when I wake up.

 But I identified this and I told myself that I will not let troubles of my clients take the better of me. It is okay till a point to understand their problems, but to take on their problems as your own is, I would say a negative thing, which I’ve learned very recently. I would say at the end. You’re just doing your job. You’re a professional. You’re being paid to do your job, do your job properly. If you’re not doing your job properly, sometimes then you get stressed because you’re not putting in the work in the file that the file demands. Sometimes you are not looking after your clients’ demands, but if you are doing your job properly, I think you should not be stressed about the outcome because you are not the judge, you are not God, you are not anybody else. You are just an advocate for your client. If you advocate for your client to the best of your ability, I think there’s nothing to worry about. Result doesn’t matter. Even if the result is not what you expected I think the client will be happy with you because you put in a lot of hard work and it will show to the client. I think balancing your life and separating your professional problems or professional demands from your personal life is very important, especially in criminal law.

I would say this kind of stress real estate lawyers do not experience, immigration lawyers do not experience, or may not experience to the level, because my client, if I don’t do a good job, that person can be in jail for years. That person will get a criminal record. That person will lose his job. And if that person is not a Canadian citizen, they will also be deported. Sometimes they have their family, their kids here. And if the husband gets deported or the wife gets deported, it can break up their family.  I think it takes time to learn all those things. That doesn’t come on day one. But as you grow, as you get more experienced, you tend to learn how to separate these things.

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