This interview has been published by Anshi Mudgal and The SuperLawyer Team
You completed your Bachelor in Civil Law at Brasenose College, University of Oxford. Was law always the career path you envisioned for yourself and what motivated you to pursue law as a profession?
My tryst with law was accidental. I had lost my Civics book, a day prior to my final exams in school. My father sat me down with a copy of the Constitution of India and spoke about Keshvananda Bharti. Whilst reading through the charter on Fundamental rights and duties, I came across the wide powers of the courts as enforcers and protectors of rights and therefore, by default, the duty of the lawyers to bring causes to justice. That was it! Dreamy eyed about the change and difference that lawyers can make to society (of course also influenced by Alan Shore from Boston Legal), I decided to pursue Law as my profession.
Early in your career, you worked at several prestigious law firms before transitioning to work with Senior advocates like Mr. Akhil Sibal and Mr. K.K. Venugopal. How would you describe the cultural differences between these two environments, and how did you adapt to each?
There are definite distinctions and also certain similarities in the working culture of a Law Firm when compared to a Counsel’s Chamber.
Starting with the distinction first, at a law firm, you are exposed to direct client dealings, extensive drafting and working with many counsels and senior counsels. You are involved with filing and getting matters listed, billing and preparing recording letters for the client.
On the other hand, working in a Senior Advocate’s chamber gives you a balcony view into the mind of the lawyer- her/his quirks, style of presentation, method of preparation and the ultimate act of reading the law and convincing the bench with arguments. Preparation of briefing notes involved detailed churning of legal research with factual analysis.
Coming to the similarity– at both places, you are expected to work hard and stay abreast with the law and the legal system. The working hours don’t get better at either, and you learn and gain immensely at both!
Therefore, whilst the scope of work for the junior may differ in a Law Firm when compared to a Senior’s chamber, the expectations from her/him to give their best- remains the same.
Having worked closely with prominent Senior Advocates like Mr. K.K. Venugopal, what are some of the most valuable lessons you’ve learned from them, and how have those lessons shaped your approach to legal practice?
Working with a venerated counsel like Mr. Venugopal- who is an institution in himself, was a guiding factor in me truly coming to love the law and understand the rigours and discipline that are basic tenets for a lawyer. Boss, as we all call him in his chamber, taught us that there are no shortcuts to success. Even today, whilst preparing for a matter, he refers to judgments and makes copious notes, with the same curiosity as he would have if he were reading it for the first time, despite having argued many of them himself and having applied them in several instances. During arguments, Boss could ask any question from the briefing junior, which was born from the facts stated in the file or beyond, which meant that we had to always be on top of things and be prepared for a volley of questions- sometimes tougher than what came from the bench itself. This taught us to be prepared beyond the file, to ask questions and analyse, to fact-check and to never argue on conjectures. Boss would rarely ever raise his voice at us and his disappointment was often remarked with a long sigh reverberating in a whistle, the consequence of which was far stronger than mere words. He taught us the discipline to reach court early irrespective of how late your matter was on board. He taught us to be fair and to act as an ethical officer of the court. He treats every colleague of his as an extension of his family. One instance that I will never forget was, when I was seeking a passover for him in Court as he was stuck before another bench, and the concerned Judge asked me to argue the matter instead. He came in the middle of my arguments, but patted me on my back and asked me to continue arguing and sat right next to me-that kind of encouragement to a young counsel starting out in their career meant a lot! Despite working so hard, boss also taught us to not take ourselves too seriously and to always remain curious. In his own words, he taught us that “to know that you don’t know is the beginning of knowledge.” I am truly blessed to be a part of his chamber- which has had a large part in shaping me as a lawyer.
Working with Mr. K.K. Venugopal on landmark cases like the Right to Privacy case must have been an enriching experience. Could you share some insights from your involvement in that case and how it has influenced your career?
Being a part of the 9 Judge bench’s unanimous declaration of the right to privacy as a fundamental right definitely stands out for me as one of the most exhilarating experiences in my short stint as a lawyer. Days preceding and during the hearing were spent reading countless judgments, articles, international covenants, and expert views on the issue. As a student of law, partaking in thought-provoking arguments from some of the finest minds in the country- at bar and on bench, was outstanding. It exposed me to understand the many different silos that exist in the right to privacy, beyond its manifest existence in body integrity. As a counsel, I have applied the said doctrine in my matters dealing with data privacy and boundaries of authentication and digital records. We are all richer in our rights by the said decision and I couldn’t be more grateful for having been a part of this landmark case.
After gaining experience with top law firms and senior advocates, you made the transition to establishing your own practice. What motivated that shift, and what were some of the challenges you faced when starting your independent practice?
Like any other counsel, I also dreamt of having my own independent practise and to put my training to task. So, after about 8 years of apprenticeship, and with a small handful of clients, I decided to take the plunge and went independent. The initial days were tough especially as the quality and quantity of work that comes to you as a fresh, off the hook, independent counsel is very different from what you may have done in the senior’s chambers or in firms. But the free time gives you an opportunity to read and update your knowledge base. Being on the panel for the Union of India at the time gave me the opportunity to work on diverse areas of law and appear in court regularly. Soon after, I was appointed as the Deputy Advocate General for the State of Chhattisgarh. As special counsel, I successfully represented the Special Task force in Rajasthan in a multi-cooperative society scam involving thousands of crores of Rupees, which added to my experience. When I look back, my takeaway has been to be patient, to keep up the hard-work, and to know that every opportunity and every win or loss is a golden ticket to learn something new. I am extremely grateful for my fears and experiences, which play a part in shaping me as a lawyer today.
As an Advocate on Record and now running your own practice in areas like Constitutional and Administrative Law, Arbitration, Data Protection etc. You’re clearly dealing with highly complex issues. Could you share one of the most interesting or challenging cases you’ve worked on, and how did you prepare for that case?
A very interesting case that I recently argued was the 7 judges constitutional bench reference on the issue of sub-classification of reservation benefits to Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe seeking re-consideration of the decision in E.V. Chinnaiah v. State of Andhra Pradesh and Ors. [(2005) 1 SCC 394]. In order to justify the reversal of the earlier judgment required presenting the Hon’ble court with constituent assembly debates- to show the original intent of the constitutional framers. I argued that Compensatory discrimination, as a subset of Affirmative Action, has the preliminary goal of curbing discrimination and the ultimate goal of its eradication. I presented empirical data to show that Scheduled Caste as a group is heterogeneous in its form and acute disparity exists within the groups and treating them with the same brush of representation is antithetical to the concept of substantive equality. Several scholarly writings on the subject, such as Marc Galanter’s book-Competing Equalities: Law and the Backward Classes in India, J.H. Hutton’s book, Caste in India: Its Nature, Functions and Origins, celebrated Austrian Economist Friedrich A. Hayek’s work on the Constitution of Liberty, to name a few, came to my extensive aid. We are now in receipt of the landmark judgment, where my arguments have found mention, and which lays down the distinguished principle of sub-classification of reservation benefits as a facet of substantive equality.
Given the demanding nature of your work, especially your role as Counsel for the Union of India in the Supreme Court, how do you manage to maintain a work-life balance? What strategies do you use to recharge and stay passionate about law?
I remember reading the quote somewhere that “The law is a jealous mistress and requires long and constant courtship. It is not to be won by trifling favors, but by lavish homage.” I couldn’t agree more- it takes away most of your weekends and expects you to burn the midnight oil. But the profession is also like riding a wave, some days are crazier than others-So in my free time, I love to read, spend time with my family and pursue my hobbies. Also, the court calendar sets out long vacation periods, allowing us to travel or take time off, which for me, is the best energiser. Staying passionate about law comes from staying in tune with the changing times and also from rigorous reading and discussions. Even if I am not involved in a matter, I love watching cases being argued in court and to witness legal jurisprudence develop. Discussion with my colleagues in the office is an enriching exchange of fresh ideas. Legal conferences can also be a great venue to brainstorm and to learn from other’s experiences and discussions.
For young lawyers just starting out, particularly in the fields of litigation and international/domestic arbitration, what advice would you offer to help them navigate these complex areas and build a successful career?
Young lawyers just starting out today have far more exposure and better understanding of the nuances of law and its practise, than I remember having, when I started out. The only thing that I sometimes find lacking in young lawyers is patience. I see young counsels diving into calling themselves specialists without knowing basic procedural laws. Also, whilst arguing matters in the Apex Court or doing big ticket arbitrations is a thrilling experience, learning from the ground carries you higher. Walking through the registries and learning how to get defects cured and getting matters filed and listed, to me, is as crucial as knowing how to argue a case. These learnings help you especially when you start out on your own and have to run an office and give time commitments to your client. In today’s time, being comfortable with technology is a must- both for litigation and Arbitration. Staying abreast with evolving law helps you stand out. AI based research may have made life easier, but it is crucial that the foundations are laid stronger and provisions in a statute are read before diving into research. In my opinion, perseverance, hard work and integrity are key ingredients to success for any and all.
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